SACRED BLADE - March 2005
Originally featured on Hammerblow.org
Click for Italian version

by Agnar

featuring Jeff Ulmer

Hello, Jeff! It's very singular to talk with you about Sacred Blade, nowadays, don't you think??? What happened to Sacred Blade since 1986 (release-date of the full-length album)?

There has been so much that has gone on in that time that I don't really know where to start. By the time the LP was released, half the band was gone. Ted Zawadzki , our drummer, joined in 1987, and we spent a great deal of time over the next few years working at my home studio on arrangements and demos for the second, third and fourth albums, plus doing a few scattered live shows. After deciding not to pursue a deal with Epic Records, I took the band back into the studio in 1990 to begin what was supposed to have been the final version of the second album, but that was abandoned when our master tapes began deteriorating beyond repair. We were still playing live fairly regularly , but I began shifting focus back to the recorded work and the latest iteration of my project studio. By 1993 the band was down to Ted and I, working evenings and weekends after starting up my graphic design company to fund the recordings. We have continued to work on the project ever since, and on March 13, 2005 released our first album in over fifteen years - OTHYRWORLD - BEYOND INTO THE NIGHT OF DAY.

In that time I also took on a number of other projects, including producing demos for a handful of local bands, becoming a staff DVD reviewer for digitallyOBSESSED.com, and working with 20th Century Fox in the production of their DVD for John Boorman's movie, Zardoz. These days I am also busy on my little farm, when not trying to thaw out from our cold Canadian winters.

You must know, if you don't already know, that "Of the Sun + Moon" (the gatefold vinyl version on Black Dragon records) has reached unbelievable ratings in the last years!!! Sometime ago, I gave 41 Euros to get my copy! What do you think about the Metal collectors' ring around the world and what about the huge rating of your LP? Do you think it's right to give more than 40 euros for "Of the Sun + Moon"?

I am honoured that the album is held in such high regard, even this long after its original release. I have always tried to create music that has depth and quality to it, which is what I valued in the albums I grew up with. While Of the Sun + Moon is far from perfect, I think people are able to see beyond all the flaws that bother me about it, to the heart and energy behind the music. I do think a big part in the LP version's appeal is the gatefold packaging, which is extremely rare for a first album release - labels just weren't willing to spend that kind of money on an unproven act. I can't comment on what is too expensive for a collectable, as we all have our own limits as to what things are worth. It is flattering that people are willing to pay such high prices for the LP version, especially when the CD is far more limited in its distribution. It will be interesting to see how much people are asking for the CD in ten year's time.

"Of the Sun + Moon" is one of the most wanted albums between US-Metal fans, even if almost 18 years have passed by, from its release. I think you must fell glad about it. What about the re-release on digital support?

It is very rewarding to have the kind of continued interest Sacred Blade has managed over the years, and justifies the years of work it took to bring that first album to market in the face of so much adversity. When looking at the reissue, it was very important to me to make sure that the CD release captured the best possible quality from the original, which is why it took almost two years to restore and remaster the disc. Although I was extremely tempted to remix and rerecord a lot of things, I decided it was best for me to just try to present a digital version that was as true to the original as possible. The CD does make it possible to hear things that weren't audible on vinyl, due to the higher resolution and lack of surface noise.
I also decided it was best to market the CD directly to the fans, rather than letting a label release it, for a number of reasons. Since I handle every order myself, I like the fact that I am dealing with the people who are supporting our work, and being able to give them personal attention, rather than selling to an anonymous audience. Also, since fans are buying right from the source, it allows any profits to go back into more recording, rather than just the small percentage which would normally make it back to the artist. Selling exclusively from the website does make it somewhat less convenient than walking into your local record store, but all of your money is going to the band, and into creating more music.

In all your songs and works, including demos, the space-oriented themes are very frequent! How does this interest in astronomic have born? Explain us the concept of "Of the Sun + Moon".

I have always had an interest in space science and speculative fiction, dating back to watching Star Trek on TV as a kid. The lyrics to Of the Sun + Moon are loosely based on a novel I began writing in 1981, which was drawn from what was to have been the title track of the second album. Rather than simply telling a story through the album, I prefer to keep things more abstract, and let the listener come up with their own interpretation. I always found it more interesting to use my own imagination about what things mean, but use the lyrics to create an atmosphere, much like when reading a novel, where the characters and settings are presented on the page, but if written well, are realised in your own mind. Of the Sun + Moon (and by extension, the new OTHYRWORLD album) is only a small part of the overall story. My intent is to build a body of work that when presented in its entirety will build a complete story, with the initial entry offering glimpses of what is to come.

I've seen on your website a sort of campaign against Reborn Classics, the legendary label which released lots of Metal cult records on CD, due to the difficulty of finding them on LP. I know -and I've seen- that they have published a bootleg of your early demotapes, "Seven moons of Xercez": how they have got those demos? Reborn Classics is mostly known as an unauthorized label - We hope to see those demos released officially!

People have been asking us for years to release the demos on CD, but while I would like to make them officially available, I am not willing to use masters that aren't as good as they can be. To do so will require a good deal of time and money, as there is a lot of restoration and mastering work involved, and other issues I'm not at liberty to discuss, but which involve some substantial additional costs. Having the tracks available on the bootleg doesn't help, despite those being atrocious quality. While there is a demand for an official release, for me, it is not worth doing unless it is done properly, and at this point the budget is tied up with the new OTHYRWORLD release.

As for Reborn Classics, they are nothing but a bunch of opportunistic thieves, who take advantage of both the bands and their fans by stealing material and releasing it without ever getting permission, or ever paying for the rights to do so. Unlike official releases, which, at least in our case, means going back to the original master tapes, they get their masters the same way everyone else who has a copy of the demo tapes did, by obtaining a cassette version from somewhere, or by simply taping the LP. What ends up happening is that the band loses all the income from these CD sales (which could help pay off the original recording costs, or fund new projects or proper rereleases of older material), while giving the fans only a low quality, poorly packaged rip off.

It also makes it a lot harder to release material legitimately, since a good percentage of people who may have bought the official release won't buy it again if they own the bootleg, and many labels are reluctant to license material that is already available. In the case of the "Seven Moonz" CD, it killed any possibility of Sacred Blade ever releasing the follow-up record we had been working on for over 15 years, and was a factor in deciding to abandon the Sacred Blade name for future projects. Bands need the financial support from their fans from legitimate sales to keep going. Supporting these bootleg companies is bad for everyone, since the only ones who profit are the crooks who sell them, and who did nothing to get the music recorded and released in the first place.

Tell us about something you remember from the 80s': your band, your first record, the US-scene, the other US Metal bands of that period - do you think that things are changed in good or in bad, nowadays?

It seems so long ago now - wait a minute, it was so long ago! In retrospect, there was a lot of good music being produced around the world back then. It was amazing to us to be as well received as we were in the early years, and I have to thank the fans for their generous support when the first demos made the rounds, which, while not successful financially, did encourage me to keep working towards the dream. Although I am fairly embarrassed by those early recordings, they were honest, which is something I have tried to maintain in all our work. It was quite a reward to get the first single, The Alien, released on the Metal Massacre 4 compilation, especially as the opening track, and it attracted the attention of labels around the world which allowed us to proceed with the debut album. However, that project turned out to be far more work than I ever could have imagined, but the experience taught me a great deal, so memories of its creation are bitter sweet. We ran into every conceivable problem making Of the Sun + Moon, and up until the day I finally shipped the artwork off to France it was a struggle. Making that record was the hardest thing I had ever done to that point, and it certainly took the mythical glamour off the whole music industry, and gave me a healthy dose of reality. It is truly a miracle that it was ever finished, which can also be said of our latest work, which took ten years to make.

As to whether things are better or worse now, I would have to draw a line somewhere in the middle. I think the focus on video and an image driven market has hurt the music, with many acts paying more attention to how they look than the quality of their songs. There is very little new music that interests me. On the other hand, the cost of creating records, which was very prohibitive back in the early 1980s, has come down, allowing more artists to release their work. However that also means that the quality will suffer in a lot of cases, since the recordings lack the experience of professional engineers and producers. The internet has added new challenges, especially when it comes to piracy, but it has also allowed bands to connect directly with their fans in a way they couldn't before. It certainly is a different landscape now than it was twenty years ago.

Being from Canada, there really wasn't a scene here, and I don't think there is now. We got a chance to meet quite a few bands as they came through town or when we played with them, but there really wasn't a great deal of comraderie, except for a couple of the projects I ended up eiether playing with or producing. Being isolated has helped in defining my own identity I think, and stopped us from blending in with other music from around here. Most of the Vancouver bands of the 1980s and 1990s had their own sound, but very few could stick it out to getting records released due to the lack of local support. That is too bad, as there were a few bands that had some great material, but never got beyond the rehearsal studio. Now it seems like everyone is jumping on whatever is currently popular. I can't do that, I work too slow.

The last curiosity: why to use, in the titles, the "+" instead "and" or the "z" instead of "s"? It's a dialectical matter or what?

You'll have to lay some of the blame on John Boorman for that. I can't recall when I started doing that, but it was a long time ago. It sure makes proof reading your album text a nightmare, and I'm sure that it also makes it a lot harder for the fans whose first language isn't English to understand what I'm writing about. Sorry about that! It has become one of my quirks I guess. Spelling never was my strongest point.

I must thank you so much for accepting this interview-leave your message to the readers of my e-zine HAMMERBLOW - THE HEAVY METAL RESOURCE. Cheers, Jeff!

First, I must thank you for your patience, both in waiting for new music and waiting (and waiting, and waiting) for this interview! Our new album, BEYOND INTO THE NIGHT OF DAY, was just released, and I hope your readers get a chance to check it out, the response so far has been phenomenal. I hope the fans feel it is an album they want to own, and will support our independent production by purchasing it from us, as this is the only way we will be able to continue producing music. I want to keep making music for the fans, not for corporations. You guys have the power to let me do it. Peace!