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"Beyond Into The Night Of Day" became the perfect 'Director's Cut' of one of the best albums ever released." Thilo Meiswinkel - Germany 5/5 - BloodDawn.de |
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SACRED BLADE / OTHYRWORLD Interview with Jeff Ulmer (Holger Andrae, Power Metal.de 04/2006) Note: This interview appears in its translated form on Germany's Power Metal.de website. This is the original English text. Holger Andrae: Maybe we start and give our readers a lookback into the history of the work of Jeff Ulmer. How often did you rerecord OTSAM and will all these recordings be available at one point of time in the future like the diary of an album? Jeff Ulmer: The material that made up the Of the Sun + Moon album has been recorded in its entirety at least three times, although some of the songs were demoed a lot more than that. The first were the rehearsal demos that I used in preproduction - basically live instrumental tracks with vocals dubbed in later. I have no plans to release these. The second was the 1986 Sacred Blade album version now available on the limited edition CD. This version underwent a lot of rerecording during its production - we redid all of the rhythm guitar parts after tracking for months and doing rough mixes — but in the end we ran out of time and money, so the tracks were never completed to my satisfaction. The third time the material was recorded was the production of the new OTHYRWORLD album, which was by far the most extensive process yet. I think the contrast between the 1986 version and the 2005 version says a lot, both in terms of what is similar and what has changed. I don't think that the development needs much more documenting. However, I could see doing something as a companion piece on DVD that delves deeper into the tracks and shows some of the elements that went into each song, isolating parts that form the various arrangements. In completing Beyond Into the Night of Day, my definitive version has finally been realized, at least for now. HA: How often did you rebuilt your studio? JU:I have had to reconstruct my studio far too many times, and I am not done yet. There have been at least five major incarnations, each in different locations, and each of which took months or years of work to plan and construct. Due to the massive expense involved, I have yet to build a "real" studio, one that has proper acoustic design and treatment, which has made the work that much harder, as I am constantly fighting the technical deficiencies in the rooms. The OTHYRWORLD album was recorded almost entirely in a converted garage. That was the best room I have worked in (outside the pro studios) so far, although it was far from acoustically accurate. Much of the early production time was spent figuring out how things were translating to the real world, and making adjustments - which also meant a lot of retracking. Mixing wasn't any easier, as I had to sell that building to finish financing the album, which meant a new room, which added another year onto the production. I am still a long way from having the kind of space I had available at the last location. I hope that some day I will have a facility that allows me the ability to concentrate on the creative side of making music, rather than dealing with the technical and financial obstacles that have caused so many delays in the past. HA: Will or have you already worked with other bands as a producer? Is there a point beyond perfection where you are satisfied with the work of others? JU: Throughout my career, I have tried to help out other less established artists by volunteering my engineering and production services on a number of demo projects for local bands. When it comes to capturing performances, there is a big difference between technical and emotional perfection. Mistakes happen, they are what make us human. What I really want is to capture the energy. If I can help others translate their energy to a recorded medium, then the job is successful. I also want to ensure that there are no lapses in the performances, the song should grab you and hold your attention from start to finish, regardless of the style. When complete, the arrangements and performances should mesh, and everything should compliment each other. My approach to production is to create an environment where the artist has a chance to perform at their peak. From a sonic perspective, the production quality needs to be very high for me to be satisfied with my work, and being able to consistently achieve this has taken decades to develop. That said, each project creates its own challenges, and overcoming those challenges is part of the reward for completing them. The biggest problem with most productions is a lack of time due to the budget, which means that there are often performances that make the final product which aren't as good as they should or could be. These days I have barely enough time to work on my own music, let alone anyone else’s. HA: Is there any band you would like to work with? JU: There are lots of established acts that I would love to work with, primarily ones I grew up listening to. More realistically though, I could see myself working in either a remix or remastering situation - there are dozens of albums that haven't seen a proper reissue that I would love to get my hands on simply because I love those albums so much. It seems with a lot of reissues that the work being done has no connection to the material, both sonically and in the packaging. Two projects I would name immediately are Styx-Equinox and (don't laugh) Anne Murray's debut album-What About Me, which was an important part of my childhood, and which was brutalized in its only CD release. At which point did you decide to call the band OTHYRWORLD?Is OTHYRWORLD = SACRED BLADE or does SB exist in a parallel universe? That decision was made in the early 1990s, although it had been coming even before the debut BLADE album was released. If you have listened to the new album, it is pretty evident that from a spiritual and stylistic perspective, my music has not changed. While it may be hard for the people who have known SACRED BLADE for decades to get used to, OTHYRWORLD as a name has far more connection to the actual content of the music, lyrically, visually and musically than SACRED BLADE ever did. When I came up with the SACRED BLADE name in the late 1970s, it was to solve a problem and fit the outdated artwork designs I was working on in high school from a prior band name (which, ironically, were pretty damn close to the Metal Massacre IV cover). Conceptually it never fit the music, and as the eighties wore on and more and more bands started using similar names and the whole metal genre took on a new meaning, it became even less relevant. SACRED BLADE sowed the seed, OTHYRWORLD is what it has become. Do you have a complete line up to play live? Live performance has not been on the agenda for a long time, but I do have personnel available for when the time comes. Are you aware of the fact how many people alone in Germany are dying to see you live? Is there hope? Have you thought about HOA Fest? To be honest, I have no idea what our audience in Europe is like, I am about as far removed from the music scene as a person can be, despite the fact that creating music is, and always has been, the center of my life. Although there is nothing planned in the immediate future, a return to the stage is an ongoing discussion - so yes, there is hope. My immediate goal is to get another album completed before working on getting the live act back in shape. It would be nice to get to meet many of the people who have been supporting us for decades, and something I look forward to. If the fans are serious about having us come over, they need to let the promoters and magazines know. I heard you were in contact with the guys of Kit festival. Why doesn't that happen? I'm not at liberty to discuss who we are talking to, but there are a lot of logistics that need to be addressed before I can consider coming to Europe. There are things on the radar, but no plans worth discussing yet. That doesn't mean something can't or won't happen. Sometimes I get the impression that Jeff Ulmer will never play live again just because a live situation is never perfect. There are many reasons why we are not currently involved in the live scene, but a lack of perfection in a live situation isn't one of them - that is part of the experience of performing. If and when we do decide to return to the stage, I want to make sure that we are able to give the best possible performance. Anything less would be a disservice to the fans that have waited so long to see us. Are you a control freak? Not at all, as long as you do things the way I want them (joke). I have very high standards for my work, and in order to attain that quality, I have found it necessary to be personally involved in all aspects of my artistic and business endeavors. In working at this project for the last couple of decades, the times I have been most disappointed is when I have let elements fall under someone else's control. The experience of producing the Of the Sun + Moon album was the reason for moving to a more independent working situation - a case in point was the artwork for that album. I had done my best to create the covers, but at that time it wasn't possible to finish it myself due to the technology of the day. I left the final assembly in someone else's hands, but since they had no real investment in the work, they were content to just let things go that were completely unacceptable - I don't mean nitpicking, but complete incompetence. This type of scenario played out over and over again, which eventually led to doing everything myself. As the person responsible for creating this music, it is my duty to make sure each and every aspect is taken care of properly. I think what it comes down to is establishing a level of quality that you want to achieve, and not allowing other influences, such as lack of time or money, to interfere with your objectives. I am very open to input from band members, but I am not going to let substandard parts or performances go just to enhance someone's ego -including my own. There is a balance between technical and artistic perfection that I have to maintain, and getting the results I want can be a major undertaking. Knowing when I have what I need that is always a challenge, since I always believe I can do better. I am not afraid of hard work, but there is a point when you aren't improving things, only making them different. Is there any band you like to tour with?Voi Vod , Rush, King Crimson, Anathema, Opeth, Porcupine Tree … To be honest, I've never really given much thought to who I would like to tour with, and at this point in time, with all the preparation for the next album and about a thousand other jobs on my schedule, touring is the last thing on my mind. No matter who we were to go out with, I'm sure it would be an interesting experience. It would of course be cool to tour with bands who have influenced us over the years like Rush or Judas Priest. I'd be interested in hearing who the fans would like to see us with. I never found out why you did not sigh to another label after Black Dragon went strange ways. Don't you think that the release of a second album — no matter if it is perfect or not — would have pushed your career? I don't believe that releasing inferior product is good for anything other than ripping the fans off, which is the last thing I want to do. Sure, having new product would keep the public awareness alive, but I would still be faced with an album I could not fully stand behind. I struggled for over a decade to get the follow up to Of the Sun + Moon recorded, but for one reason or another, there were always obstacles that kept it from completion, from financing to having our tapes disintegrate during production. I know it is frustrating to the fans to have to wait so long for new material. It is equally frustrating for me to have to contend with the hurdles that are faced when you are independently producing music that isn't conforming to the current trends in the market, while insisting on production quality that rivals or surpasses that of artists with multibillion dollar corporations behind them. As for signing to labels, although this is seen as a sign of advancement and prestige, like a lot of the entertainment industry, this is an illusion. The business of music is heavily stacked in favor of the label, and rightly so, as they are the ones putting up all the money for the album productions. However, like any situation where you are working for someone beside yourself, there are interests that take precedence over the quality and integrity of the job being done, like time and budget restrictions, which do not work in favor of the art. The artist usually ends up the loser, with no money, and no control over their own product. We had the opportunity to sign with many labels, including majors, but the deals would have compromised my ability to produce the music I am supposed to make. I chose instead to work independently, to self-finance the recordings and invest in the equipment necessary to produce my records. I do all the work myself. What you get with OTHYRWORLD is my true creative vision, as best as I can deliver it. There are still compromises to be made, but the final decision is mine, not a boardroom full of accountants looking to prop up the current quarter's earnings. Why did you leave out 'Salem' and ' MOTS' on OTHYRWORLD? Especially 'Master' is still one of my favourites. As 'I.C. Eyez' …. Both Salem and The Enlightenment/Master of the Sun were originally slated for the album and have already been rerecorded, but are unfinished at this point. I decided that due to the length of time Beyond Into the Night of Day was taking to get completed that I would have to revise my original plan of simply redoing the 1986 album in its entirety, and began integrating the new songs that made it to the release. After almost twenty years, the fans deserved to get some new material, and in order to do that, some tracks had to be deferred. Although it remains very popular with the fans, Salem has never fit in with the theme of the lyrics, so I decided to leave it for a different release. After working on Master of the Sun for years, it still hadn't gotten to a stage where I felt it was acceptable, and I wasn't about to include any song that didn't meet my expectations, or at least be extremely close to meeting them. When I get done with Master of the Sun it will be the definitive version, but like the other material from Of the Sun + Moon, it has a history, and I want the final version to reflect all the things I like from every version. I owe that to the fans. I have not given up on these songs, but their time has yet to come. I.C. Eyez was always slated as a second album song, but it too will have to be up to standards before I release it again. Could you imagine a life without music? My life is and always has been about music, so I can't imagine living without it. When did you write the new tunes? It is often hard to say exactly when a song is "written," since the creative process usually spans years if not decades. Odyssey of Light and Ethereal Skyline were both conceived in the early 1980s, although Ethereal Skyline was a completely different song back then, with different lyrics and a different arrangement. Both were slated for the second album, although the first incarnation of Ethereal Skyline was planned for a solo album that never got off the ground. The Alignment came about in 1986 or '87, I think it was first demoed in 1989, and is pretty close to the current arrangement outside a few changes. The bass intro was written in 2004, when I finally decided to include the song on the new record. Right Ascension is the most recent of the four, coming into being in 1989. It too is pretty close to its original form, outside some of the production work.The thing with all our music is that I generally prefer to work on songs over a long period, allowing for many stages in their development. I try to retain as much of the original inspiration as possible, while refining elements that could be improved. Most of the material for the album I’m currently working on has also been around for decades, some predating the Of the Sun + Moon material. Did you intend to include them into the story of OTSAM at the time of their writing? All of our material is in some way connected to the ideas presented in the novel I started back in the late 1970s, although I don't consciously try to fit things in, it's just the way I write. When I began thinking about adding new material during the production of the OTHYRWORLD album, I was looking for songs that would fit thematically as well as musically. They also had to be far enough along in development that they wouldn't add a significant amount of time to the recording process - which of course they did. How many tracks have you already written for SB albums 2,3 and 4 ? Details pleeeease ! It is hard to quantify the number of songs I have written over the years, since along with works that are somewhat complete I also have thousands of individual parts or ideas that have been developed. I have demoed five or six album's worth of material so far, but there are hundreds of other works in various stages of development. On average, I have written a new song every month since 1978. Most of this work is unfinished, and much may not be released as part of the current project, as it is more suited to film scores or other genres. I am hopeful that I will have the opportunity and ability to complete more material without the delays that have plagued me in the past, but a lot of that rests on the support I get for the new OTHYRWORLD release.As for details, I made the mistake in the 1980s of discussing my future plans in public, and as a result, I had to shelve the project I had been working on for over a decade when the "Seven Moonz…" bootleg was released. As a result, I will not be disclosing any more advance details about what I am working on. I'm not very happy about that, as I would love to include the audience in the process, but I can't afford to waste decades of my life working on things, then having to abandon them. Do you find it somewhat limiting that SB were/are mostly featured in the metal press? The only limiting factor is that there may be a lot of people who may enjoy our music but never get to hear about it, and as a result, not be supporting it. I appreciate what coverage we do get, but that has been primarily from publications and websites who are music fans and who appreciate the music. Getting mainstream coverage is about advertising and marketing, neither of which have anything to do with the quality of the product. The major press covers what they think (or what the publicists tell them) will sell their publications and attract advertising revenue. They are in the business of selling magazines, not my albums. There is nothing wrong with that, but it's the way it is. Without a lot of financial backing, you simply aren't going to get widespread exposure. We rely heavily on our fans to help promote our products, which I feel is far more legitimate and rewarding than buying your success. I want fans for life, and would rather have a smaller, dedicated following than a mass of bandwagon fans who will drop you as soon as you aren't fashionable any more. Most record companies would cringe at this idea, but that is another reason for working independently. The fans have the ability to keep our project viable, all they need to do is keep buying the albums, and spreading the word so others will have the opportunity to judge us for themselves. Selling millions of albums would be great, but you’d be surprised at how few sales it would take to allow me to devote all my time to producing music. Do you see your bands as metal bands? If you had asked this question in 1985, the answer probably would have been yes, however what has become the definition of "metal" has changed a lot since then. I don't know - or really care for that matter - what our music is classified as. I would say that the majority of our music falls into the metal/hard rock genres, but at the same time, much of it doesn't. I'm not trying to downplay the metal influences in our music, which are important and many, but I feel that OTHYRWORLD has an audience that encompasses more than just fans of metal. My main musical influences date from the 1970s, so I believe that my writing has more in common with the artists and albums of that era than those of today. The music world has changed a lot in that time, as commercial interests, even in the niche markets, have become much more dominant than free creative expression. My albums draw from a wide range of styles and influences, and I want to create a diverse listening experience. The focus for me is on the music, not the image or creating soundtracks for videos. That said, the artwork that accompanies our recordings is an integral part of my creative expression. Do you even think in these terms and categorizing subgenres? To be honest, I don't really do much thinking about how to categorize our music at all, my job is to create, not organize (anyone who has seen my environment can vouch for that!). Since the very start, our music has covered a pretty broad spectrum, and I am not about to limit myself to a particular style just to fit someone else's predefined ideas, or to make it easy for someone to market. To cite some examples from the new album, the instrumentals To Lunar Windz… and Moon are as much a representation of my work as the heavier songs. My art reflects my life, which is very complex, and covers a wide range of emotions, experiences and moods. My tastes, be they music, film, art or even food, are the same way. If something connects with me on an emotional level, it makes no difference whether it belongs to a certain category or style. Good music is good music, and deserves to be enjoyed. Limiting one's choices to a certain style is very restricting and unrewarding. The universe is boundless, why shouldn't our musical experience be the same way? Wouldn't it be easier to call it just "good music"? I don't think the record labels or many artists would like a "good music" category, as it might not include the majority of what passes for music these days. What do you think about the term "progressive" music? Comparing bands like KING CRIMSON and RUSH with prog bands of today a lot have changed. As long as there is marketing there will be labels, appropriate or not. I don't see any real reason not to assign music to a certain genre, as long as the definitions have some room for accommodating the diversity that exists out there. If it helps expose listeners to new artists that they enjoy, I'm all for it. The truly great bands will forge their own identity regardless of where they are supposed to fit into the musical spectrum. I haven't had much exposure to modern prog — I'm still discovering too many great bands from the past — so I can't comment on the comparison. Every era will have its own sound and style, so if the content found in a genre is evolving, that is only natural. Are there any musicians you would like to work with? Who and why? There are hundreds, if not thousands, of artists it would be nice to collaborate with — it would take a book to list them all. Working with other talented people is always educational, especially when their routines and approaches are very different from your own. I think the biggest reward would be the opportunity to learn and gain insight into how others solve the problems they face during the creative process. It would also be rewarding to be able to combine our artistic energies into something tangible. A couple of the more influential people in my musical development would be Randy Bachman (B.T.O.) or Tom Scholz (Boston), both of which I respect for their talents at songwriting, arrangement and production, as well as their musicianship (of course if I were ever to work with Tom, we would both be old men before anything got finished!) Both provided examples of the do-it-yourself approach to making music. David Bowie is another artist who has always impressed me with his ability to come up with interesting and challenging material. A few more off the top of my head, but hardly a comprehensive list: David Crosby and Graham Nash for their wonderful harmony vocals; Ulrich Roth, David Gilmour or Robin Trower, still some of the most expressive guitarists I have ever heard; Gordon Lightfoot, Alanis Morrisette or Sheryl Crow, all incredibly gifted songwriters and artists. I know am overlooking many artists who have left an indelible impression on me, and who it would be an honor to work alongside. If there would be a "Tribute To SACRED BLADE" Album, who would you like to cover your material? Or do you totally hate the idea that someone else plays a mutation of your art? With all the great music out there, I was pretty shocked when I learned that someone was covering our material (Dementia, on their Blackstone album). As long as whoever was covering the music felt an emotional connection to it, and wasn’t just playing it because they were told or paid to, I have no problem with it. It is interesting to hear someone else’s interpretation of your work. I don’t feel comfortable discussing a tribute album, as I believe I have a lot more work ahead of me before I would be anywhere near deserving of such an honor. Are you still interested in Sci-Fi? Books … Movies … For as long as I can remember I have had an interest in science fiction, although there simply hasn't been time in the past several years for me to sit down and enjoy many books, and there are still a great many that I have yet to read. As for movies, I don't know that there has been a lot of real science fiction produced in the last twenty to thirty years. I think the genre was lost with the release of Star Wars, which while being an imaginative adventure and highly influential, has little to do with real science fiction. I still enjoy the films I grew up with, mostly pre-1975, like Zardoz, Logan's Run, The Man Who Fell to Earth, Fahrenheit 451, Silent Running, 2001: A Space Odyssey or Solaris. These were movies that made you think. I do like some of the more modern films - Galaxy Quest, Starship Troopers, Contact, Fifth Element - but most are designed to check your brain at the door and go along for the ride. While I am most certainly a science fiction fan, my tastes are very broad when it comes to film and literature. I am currently reading a collection of short stories by John Cheever, whose work, The Swimmer was adapted for the screen, and is one of my all time favorite films. Some of my favorite directors include John Boorman (Zardoz, The Emerald Forest, Deliverance), Bernardo Bertolucci (Stealing Beauty, The Sheltering Sky), Jaques Tati (Mon Oncle, M. Hulot Takes a Holiday), Nicholas Roeg (Walkabout, The Man Who Fell to Earth), Luis Buñuel (The Discreet Charm of the Bourgouisie, That Obscure Object of Desire), Federico Fellini (Amarcord, 8 1/2, Julliet of the Spirits), François Traffaut (Antoine Doinel series), James Ivory (Howard’s End, The Remains of the Day), Terry Gilliam, Clint Eastwood, Eric Rohmer, Hayao Miyazaki, Peter Weir, and many, many more. What do you think about the theory that there already exists another form of life on this planet? Maybe deep below the ocean.One day they will see us as their enemies as we are destroying their world and mankind will be ignorant enough to attack them again. Mankind faces enough of a threat from its own greed and stupidity without the need for another form of life to threaten us! I find it hard to believe that we are the only "intelligent" species (I use that term lightly — I don’t think what humans are doing to our environment or each other is all that intelligent, but…) in the universe. Until such time as contact is made with an alien race, we have far more to fear from our own race than any outside force, but that is dwelling on the negative. We have the potential to make positive changes in our world, which will benefit all humankind while sustaining the diversity of plant and animal life we are privileged to have on this planet. While we need an awareness of the threats that we face as a race so we can best avoid them, we need to focus on making the world a better place for everyone and everything. The world does not have to be the way it is. Can you name your Top Ten Albums (Metal/Non Metal) (Alltime/Actual) My musical tastes are extremely diverse, and with the exception of a few genres, cover just about everything to some extent. I grew up in the late 1960s and 1970s, so music from that era is very important to me. Considering how many thousands of albums I have enjoyed over the years, trying to limit my favorites to only a few albums is a daunting task. Instead, let me list some of the albums that my collection would not be complete without. The albums with a * would rank in my absolute essentials. Metal: Judas Priest — British Steel* Angelwitch — Angelwitch Motorhead — Ace of Spades* Black Sabbath — Sabbath Bloody Sabbath* Accept — Restless and Wild Metallica — Master of Puppets Saxon — Strong Arm of the Law Drain STH — Freaks of Nature Queensryche — Operation Mindcrime King’s X - Out of the Silent Planet Classic hard rock/metal: Captain Beyond - Captain Beyond* Boston — Don’t Look Back* Bachman Turner Overdrive - Bachman Turner Overdrive II Heart — Little Queen* Deep Purple — Burn* Scorpions — In Trance* Blue Oyster Cult — Secret Treaties Robin Trower — Twice Removed From Yesterday* Rainbow — Rainbow Kiss — Dressed to Kill Rock general: Styx — Equinox* Pink Floyd — Dark Side of the Moon* Aerosmith — Toys in the Attic* Max Webster — A Million Vacations* Queen — Jazz UFO — Strangers in the Night Uriah Heep — Demons and Wizards Hawkwind — Warrior on the Edge of Time Catherine Wheel — Happy Days Progressive rock (loose interpretation): Rush — Moving Pictures* Jethro Tull — Songs From the Wood* Marillion — Fugazi* Genesis — The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Eloy — Ocean Camel — Raindances Kansas — Leftoverture* Yes — Close to the Edge* King Crimson — Red Classic rock: Mike Oldfield — Tubular Bells* Eagles — Hotel California Fleetwood Mac — Rumours Elton John — Goodbye Yellow Brick Road Jeff Wayne — War of the Worlds Gordon Lightfoot — Summertime Dream Prism — Prism Supertramp — Crime of the Century Led Zeppilin — Houses of the Holy Various genres: Anne Murray — What About Me* Neil Diamond — Jonathan Livingston Seagull Soundtrack David Bowie — Low Devo — Q: Are we not Men? A: We are Devo Yello — One Second Jean Michelle Jarre — Oxygene Tangerine Dream — Stratosphere Vangelis — Albedo 0.39 Depeche Mode — Violator Gary Numan — The Pleasure Principle The Cars — Candy-O The B-52’s - The B-52’s Kraftwerk — Trans Europe Express Duran Duran — Rio October Project — October Project Final Words. I want to thank everyone who has supported our work over the years, and especially those who have kept in contact, offering their support when it appeared nothing was going on. I invite you to visit our website (http://www.othyrworld.com) and check out the new album. Your continued support will help ensure we are able to keep producing music independently.Peace! |
